how about a more modern miner willy sprite?

[ParadigmShifter]

Talking of the static image for "The Final Barrier" this is crap innit? Surely someone can do better than this. It needs to have the blank space at the top right and where the exit is though since that is part of the playable area.



It's also used for the Title Screen of course so bear that in mind as well.

It's a 256x64 image (so 2K) and the attribs are another 512 bytes.

Best way to share that is via a snapshot so I can grab the screen memory using Spin and dump it as 2 binary files.

EDIT: Here's some info about the area that needs to be blank

[Lee Bee]

Is there a plan to release this as both 48k and 128k?

[ParadigmShifter]

Right time to get beer and get this level format stuff going again.

Also got the DG data for the Robot.

Code: Select all

gfx_robot0	
			dg	...#####..#..... ;0		1f20
			dg	..###..####..... ;1		39e0
			dg	...##..####..... ;2		19e0
			dg	....####..#..... ;3		0f20
			dg	#..#####........ ;4		9f00
			dg	.#.######....... ;5		5f80
			dg	##########...... ;6		ffc0
			dg	.#.####......... ;7		5e00
			dg	#..#######...... ;8		9fc0
			dg	...######....... ;9		1f80
			dg	....###......... ;10	0e00
			dg	...#####........ ;11	1f00	
			dg	#.###.###.#..... ;12	bba0
			dg	.###...###...... ;13	71c0
			dg	..#.....#....... ;14	2080
			dg	...#...#........ ;15	1100

gfx_robot1	
			dg	.....#####...#.. ;0		07c4
			dg	....###..#####.. ;1		0e7c
			dg	.....##..#####.. ;2		067c
			dg	..#...####...#.. ;3		23c4
			dg	...#.#####...... ;4		17c0
			dg	...#.######..... ;5		17e0
			dg	..##########.... ;6		3ff0
			dg	...#.#######.... ;7		17f0
			dg	...#.#######.... ;8		17f0
			dg	..#..######..... ;9		27e0
			dg	......###....... ;10	0380
			dg	......###....... ;11	0380
			dg	.....##.##...... ;12	06c0
			dg	.....##.##...... ;13	06c0
			dg	...###...###.... ;14	1c70
			dg	.....##.##...... ;15	06c0

gfx_robot2	
			dg	.......#####..#. ;0		01f2
			dg	......###..####. ;1		039e
			dg	.......##..####. ;2		019e
			dg	........####..#. ;3		00f2
			dg	....#..#####.... ;4		09f0
			dg	.....#.######... ;5		05f8
			dg	....##########.. ;6		0ffc
			dg	.....#.####..... ;7		05e0
			dg	....#..#######.. ;8		09fc
			dg	.......######... ;9		01f8
			dg	........###..... ;10	00e0
			dg	........###..... ;11	00e0
			dg	........###..... ;12	00e0
			dg	........###..... ;13	00e0
			dg	........###..... ;14	00e0
			dg	.......#####.... ;15	01f0

gfx_robot3	
			dg	.........#####.# ;0		007d
			dg	........###..### ;1		00e7
			dg	.........##..### ;2		0067
			dg	..........####.# ;3		003d
			dg	.........#####.. ;4		007c
			dg	.........####### ;5		007f
			dg	......########.. ;6		03fc
			dg	.........####... ;7		0078
			dg	.........#####.. ;8		007c
			dg	.........####### ;9		007f
			dg	..........###... ;10	0038
			dg	..........###... ;11	0038
			dg	.........##.##.. ;12	006c
			dg	.........##.##.. ;13	006c
			dg	.......###...### ;14	01c7
			dg	.........##.##.. ;15	006c

gfx_robot4	
			dg	#.#####......... ;0		be00
			dg	###..###........ ;1		e700
			dg	###..##......... ;2		e600
			dg	#.####.......... ;3		bc00
			dg	..#####......... ;4		3e00
			dg	#######......... ;5		fe00
			dg	..########...... ;6		3fc0
			dg	...####......... ;7		1e00
			dg	..#####......... ;8		3e00
			dg	#######......... ;9		fe00
			dg	...###.......... ;10	1c00
			dg	...###.......... ;11	1c00
			dg	..##.##......... ;12	3600
			dg	..##.##......... ;13	3600
			dg	###...###....... ;14	e380
			dg	..##.##......... ;15	3600

gfx_robot5	
			dg	.#..#####....... ;0		4f80
			dg	.####..###...... ;1		79c0
			dg	.####..##....... ;2		7980
			dg	.#..####........ ;3		4f00
			dg	....#####..#.... ;4		0f90		
			dg	...######.#..... ;5		1fa0
			dg	..##########.... ;6		3ff0
			dg	.....####.#..... ;7		07a0
			dg	..#######..#.... ;8		3f90
			dg	...######....... ;9		1f80
			dg	.....###........ ;10	0700
			dg	.....###........ ;11	0700
			dg	.....###........ ;12	0700
			dg	.....###........ ;13	0700
			dg	.....###........ ;14	0700
			dg	....#####....... ;15	0f80

gfx_robot6	
			dg	..#..#####...... ;0		23e0
			dg	..#####..###.... ;1		3e70
			dg	..#####..##..... ;2		3e60
			dg	..#...####...#.. ;3		23c4
			dg	......#####.#... ;4		03e8
			dg	.....######.#... ;5		07e8
			dg	....##########.. ;6		0ffc
			dg	....#######.#... ;7		0fe8
			dg	....#######.#... ;8		0fe8
			dg	.....######..#.. ;9		07e4
			dg	.......###...... ;10	01c0
			dg	.......###...... ;11	01c0
			dg	......##.##..... ;12	0360
			dg	......##.##..... ;13	0360
			dg	....###...###... ;14	0e38
			dg	......##.##..... ;15	0360

gfx_robot7	
			dg	.....#..#####... ;0		04f8
			dg	.....####..###.. ;1		079c
			dg	.....####..##... ;2		0798
			dg	.....#..####.... ;3		04f0
			dg	........#####..# ;4		00f9
			dg	.......######.#. ;5		01fa
			dg	......########## ;6		03ff
			dg	.........####.#. ;7		007a
			dg	......#######..# ;8		03f9
			dg	.......######... ;9		01f8
			dg	.........###.... ;10	0070
			dg	........#####... ;11	00f8
			dg	.....#.###.###.# ;12	05dd
			dg	......###...###. ;13	038e
			dg	.......#.....#.. ;14	0104
			dg	........#...#... ;15	0088

I could of course mirror that in code and save 128 bytes. Some guardians can't be mirrored though (vertical guardians), and the weird spinning rabbit from JSW has different anim depending on whether it is going right or left. If I can update guardians at 50fps (could be dicy with the 48K beeper tune) could add another 4 frames of animation in the 128 bytes saved.

I'd also like the ball on the seals' noses to spin in a consistent direction (that may just be OCD though lol). Currently it looks like it is rotating the other way when moving left as opposed to right.

[ParadigmShifter]

Is there a plan to release this as both 48k and 128k?

I guess so. I need to learn about AY (or at least get a player) and how to do memory paging for that though.

Anyway the source code will be posted every time I add a new feature (so I will post full source code once v1 of the level data format can display a couple of levels).

I'll also post code in sections now instead of one gigantic listing... will split on the level data, code, and global data.

[Lee Bee]

I'm not historically a Miner Willy fan (got my Speccy in '86) so I still don't know too much about these games. I don't even know how many spinoffs there have been with new levels. For anyone who didn't know, there was a 2017 mod Back To The Mine which has 20 new levels. Not sure how significant/popular these other levels were, as to warrant their inclusion here, but they were included along with the original levels in the 2020 compilation game Manic 40 Miner.

[gabriele amore]

please keep in mind that I would love to redraw more sprites for the game (i never liked those penguins or those flamingoes)

[Lee Bee]

please keep in mind that I would love to redraw more sprites for the game (i never liked those penguins or those flamingoes)

Perhaps you could redraw "The Final Barrier" screen, as mentioned above?

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm not historically a Miner Willy fan (got my Speccy in '86) so I still don't know too much about these games. I don't even know how many spinoffs there have been with new levels. For anyone who didn't know, there was a 2017 mod Back To The Mine which has 20 new levels. Not sure how significant/popular these other levels were, as to warrant their inclusion here, but they were included along with the original levels in the 2020 compilation game Manic 40 Miner.

There's umpteen bazillion spinoffs lol.

Most are documented here:

https://www.jswcentral.org/

My 2010 unfinished port is listed there as well. It wasn't finished because my PC had a small fire in the power supply department and I didn't get a new one for a while, and the only backup of the source was on some mediafire site I think (and it wasn't the final source).

4. Manic Miner Turbo
Author: Paradigm Shifter

Year: 2010

Language: English



Manic Miner with a rewritten game engine and faster action. It was created by Paradigm Shifter and posted to World of Spectrum in February 2010. An RZX recording of the game, submitted by Mark Woodmass (Woody), was published on the RZX Archive in March that year.

Judging by the info in the thread on WoS, Paradigm Shifter did not even consider the file he posted a beta version yet; he believed he needed to add "boot, title screen/scrolly message, scoring and demo" and he was planning to add "at least 20 more screens" afterwards. Sadly, there has been no publicly announced development of the game since March 2010.



Number of rooms: 20

Highest documented score: N/A

(There is no scoring in the game.)

[ParadigmShifter]

please keep in mind that I would love to redraw more sprites for the game (i never liked those penguins or those flamingoes)

Ok well the Robot anims have been posted. DG format should not be too hard to understand? (A dot is paper colour and # is ink colour) - so should be easy to transfer them to AGD editor for tweaking.



From this page of the disassembly

https://skoolkit.ca/disassemblies/manic ... 45056.html

But feel free to do any sprites you like. All the graphics are on the skoolkit disassembly site (most of them are embedded in the actual levels for Manic Miner).

Probs best to stick to 4 frames (I can manually mirror them if you don't) for now. If I only update half the guardians per frame I might be able to do 8 frames per guardian though... but wait until I see what the performance is like.

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm not historically a Miner Willy fan (got my Speccy in '86) so I still don't know too much about these games. I don't even know how many spinoffs there have been with new levels. For anyone who didn't know, there was a 2017 mod Back To The Mine which has 20 new levels. Not sure how significant/popular these other levels were, as to warrant their inclusion here, but they were included along with the original levels in the 2020 compilation game Manic 40 Miner.

Oh I also meant to say once I get some levels running (so need to add proper movement for Willy and the guardians, proper collision detection) I will start asking around to see if there's any levels considered very good which I can add.

I definitely want to see if I can get 60 levels in (number of rooms in JSW). May have to reuse some graphics from existing levels though depending on amount of memory there is.

[ParadigmShifter]

Brush code is in, now I need to handle repeating blocks (and set the correct attribs as well).



Data size needed to draw that (the bushes, stalactites, keys and exit) = 43 bytes.

Looking at the rest of the brushes I will need for Central Cavern, the level size will be another 30 bytes so 73 bytes total.

I need to add some extra data for the guardians as well. I think I can pack the data a bit better than it used to be, I think each guardian was about 9 bytes, should be able to get that smaller. I also need to add the level name (14 bytes uncompressed, can compress it to 10 bytes).

Central Cavern looks like it will be under 100 bytes anyway compared to 130 bytes last time, so around 25% bytes saved I reckon. And I can compress the keydata even more.

Central Cavern isn't a very complicated level though.

[Lee Bee]

With the utmost respect to the original game, that new sprite really makes the whole game so much better! Great idea to do this, Gab!

[ParadigmShifter]

Well it's definitely motivated me to finish off/rewrite and improve my old project from 2010 and make as many improvements to that as I can (in terms of data size, engine speed, etc.).

The 8 frames of animation was exactly what I was looking for!

Got the horizontal repeat working but the check for whether I had to change the brush is suffering from Beer O'Clock.

This data (46 bytes). IPB stands for INK, PAPER, BRIGHT by the way
ROOMPARAMS is _startx_, _starty_, _faceleft_, _border_, _paper_
(Willy start pos, whether facing left or not at start, level border colour, level paper colour) - packed into 16 bits (2 bytes)
EXITPARAMS is _posx_, _posy_, _ink_, _paper_, _bright_ (position and attribs of the exit), also packed into 2 bytes.

Code: Select all

Central_Cavern:
	ROOMPARAMS 2, 13, 0, 2, 0 ; 2 bytes
	EXITPARAMS 29, 13, 6, 1, 0 ; 2 bytes
	; keys. Can obvs compress these better (9bits/xy pos)
	keytype gfx_key0
	db 5 ; num keys, paper<<3 for key
	db 9, 0
	db 29, 0
	db 16, 1
	db 24, 4
	db 30, 6

	; level tiles
	IPB			6, 2, 0
	celltype gfx_wall0 ; wall is always first tile in list
	IPB			2, 0, 1
	celltype gfx_platform0
	IPB			4, 0, 1
	celltype gfx_spiky0
	IPB			2, 0, 0
	celltype gfx_crumbly0
	IPB			5, 0, 0
	celltype gfx_spiky1
	IPB_LAST	4, 0, 0
	celltype gfx_conveyor0

	db 5 ; brush and flags
	TILE		11, 0
	TILELAST	16, 0

	db 3 ; brush and flags
	TILE		23, 4
	TILE		27, 4
	TILE		21, 8
	TILELAST	12, 12

	db 2|HORZ_REPEAT ; brush and flags
	TILEHORZRPT_LAST	1, 15, 30

	db #FF ; end of level data

Draws this



Should be easy to fix tomorrow.

Not too much progress today although the brush stuff is nice.

[ParadigmShifter]

With the utmost respect to the original game, that new sprite really makes the whole game so much better! Great idea to do this, Gab!

Main reason I wanted to rewrite it as first speccy game in 2010 is because there were tons of mods available, source code is easy to find, etc. I obviously suffer from the "Can't draw" issue as well so easily rippable graphics was a bonus too

I can write tunes though so it won't just be your tunes that get in the game I'll probably only do a few jingles however, I'm saving my killer tunes for other projects Maybe the high score table or something will have a jingle by me (obvs would have to add a high score table as well lol).

But the original (which is denied on here now) was really slow and flickery. I thought I could do a lot better (Matthew Smith was only 16 when he wrote the original though so we can let him off).

Also the level format is extremely wasteful and I noticed modders really struggling with that as well.

A new open source version is just what the community needed in 2010 (and probably does now lol). This won't be compatible with any existing level editing tools of course.

I'll put an option in to slow it down to 25fps (or even slower) if people prefer the old school speed. It won't flicker though!

[arjun]

Ok well the Robot anims have been posted. DG format should not be too hard to understand? (A dot is paper colour and # is ink colour) - so should be easy to transfer them to AGD editor for tweaking.



From this page of the disassembly

https://skoolkit.ca/disassemblies/manic ... 45056.html

But feel free to do any sprites you like. All the graphics are on the skoolkit disassembly site (most of them are embedded in the actual levels for Manic Miner).

Probs best to stick to 4 frames (I can manually mirror them if you don't) for now. If I only update half the guardians per frame I might be able to do 8 frames per guardian though... but wait until I see what the performance is like.

Given the height and width of the robot, Willy and other characters in the game, isn't it possible to introduce some extra color for them? Do the sprites need to be single colour throughout due to some limitations in the game data/engine?

[AndyC]

Given the height and width of the robot, Willy and other characters in the game, isn't it possible to introduce some extra color for them? Do the sprites need to be single colour throughout due to some limitations in the game data/engine?

Horizontal nasties are always character aligned, so theoretically it's possible. I think you'd struggle to design sprites that didn't just look weird as they move though unless you just coloured the top and bottom halves differently?

Vertical nasties move on a pixel level so trying to apply attributes on them is going to be messy vertically, but I guess you could get away with a horizontal division. I still think it'd end up looking uglier overall.

[equinox]

Interesting -- it looks bad when you view the zoomed pixels, but looks GREAT at real size.
What's funny is that you're trying to capture the "miner's torch/flashlight helmet" and that takes about 3x3 space.
You ended up creating monochrome Mario.

CLUELESS Bas**rd (me): what about making Solar Power Generator a bit less savage. This is not a sprite question, it's probably some awful ROM rip.

every day i walk through the Banyan Tree. it's between the jamaican restaurant and the-- FINE OK.

[Lee Bee]

You ended up creating monochrome Mario.

Yeah, I thought the same thing.

I can write tunes though so it won't just be your tunes that get in the game I'll probably only do a few jingles however, I'm saving my killer tunes for other projects Maybe the high score table or something will have a jingle by me (obvs would have to add a high score table as well lol).

May I apologise, ParadigmShifter. There aren't too many musicians around in this community so I've just gotten into the habit of offering my services, which are often in demand. I had totally overlooked the possibility that you may be up for doing the music for this project - sorry. I primarily think of you as a supremo whizz programmer. I know you also have a passion for music and music theory, and I've been greatly impressed with the beeper sound effects in your games, though I don't think I've heard your actual music to date. Looking forward to that

Anyway, this is your (and Gab's) project and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Please feel free to contribute as much of the music as you wish, or make this entirely yours. If you do want to get me in, I'll be happy to help, but only where needed.

Musical collaborations can be fun. The only thing I'd prefer to avoid is two men creating music independently then this being randomly slapped together at the end, with no consistency or overall creative vision. No regard for how the "game over" music will sound after the ingame music, for example. So if I'm going to contribute, I'd prefer to hear what you've done first so I can make sure I'm supporting your style and everything gels together nicely. I'd also very much like to know the extent of my involvement upfront (and how much memory I have to play with) before I begin making music.

But the original (which is denied on here now) …

Yeah, about that. Does this mean that your game will also be officially denied from the moment it's made? JSW Central must have gone into meltdown about this crazy turn of events.

I also wonder if JSW Central are spying on this thread? Hi guys!

[equinox]

If Mr Bee is offering you music, then take it, he's great.

I also wonder if JSW Central are spying on this thread? Hi guys!

This indicates that we don't correctly separate discussion threads and "information" (which might be some wiki thing, or SC archive, etc.).
I think this place is amazing but I still sometimes wonder why you do things the way you do. Even when I'm sober.
Still we do have an actual database and all the web sites are just a rendering.

Funny story (not funny): when I was leaving client's office today, I saw a load of 3.5" floppy disks in the bin. Also a lot of old CD-ROMs. It's interesting because I have previously updated their material, I'm not sure where this stuff came from, must have been director-level. I thought to myself "you can recycle those CD jewel cases" (you can generally put them in your plastics) but I was too lazy to grab em. Sorry landfill.

[ParadigmShifter]

Given the height and width of the robot, Willy and other characters in the game, isn't it possible to introduce some extra color for them? Do the sprites need to be single colour throughout due to some limitations in the game data/engine?

Horizontal Guardians can have colour, since they only move in character cells. I could do 4 colours for those if you want (although that makes more data for the level, since each enemy has it's own colour (could maybe define a few defaults for each one though?)).

Vertical guardians can only really be coloured each side differently (left side, right side).

Willy is a cross between a horizontal and a vertical guardian in that it moves in character cells like a horizontal guardian but it can also be drawn at any Y position.

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah, I thought the same thing.


May I apologise, ParadigmShifter. There aren't too many musicians around in this community so I've just gotten into the habit of offering my services, which are often in demand. I had totally overlooked the possibility that you may be up for doing the music for this project - sorry. I primarily think of you as a supremo whizz programmer. I know you also have a passion for music and music theory, and I've been greatly impressed with the beeper sound effects in your games, though I don't think I've heard your actual music to date. Looking forward to that

Anyway, this is your (and Gab's) project and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Please feel free to contribute as much of the music as you wish, or make this entirely yours. If you do want to get me in, I'll be happy to help, but only where needed.

Musical collaborations can be fun. The only thing I'd prefer to avoid is two men creating music independently then this being randomly slapped together at the end, with no consistency or overall creative vision. No regard for how the "game over" music will sound after the ingame music, for example. So if I'm going to contribute, I'd prefer to hear what you've done first so I can make sure I'm supporting your style and everything gels together nicely. I'd also very much like to know the extent of my involvement upfront (and how much memory I have to play with) before I begin making music.


Yeah, about that. Does this mean that your game will also be officially denied from the moment it's made? JSW Central must have gone into meltdown about this crazy turn of events.

I also wonder if JSW Central are spying on this thread? Hi guys!

You can do all the music if you want although I will maybe do a short tune for the game over or high score table.

You must have heard my music for SJOE? https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/4 ... ctrum/SJOE
That one is called "Mutant Killer Beasties". It starts slowly so maybe you skipped it? It has an intro, verse, pre chorus and chorus.

Pre chorus:

They is bad!
They is mean!
They is nasty.... nasty

Chorus:
They is MUTANT KILLER BEASTIES! Mutant Killer Beasties.

EDIT: Tune only sounds good in QAOP emulator the JSSpeccy one has sound playback issues I think.

I don't know if there are any issues with an open source remake of MM legally. There is some original Matthew Smith code for the beeper tune player and the Willy movement but I had to adapt that to different variables being used etc.

[ParadigmShifter]

Interesting -- it looks bad when you view the zoomed pixels, but looks GREAT at real size.
What's funny is that you're trying to capture the "miner's torch/flashlight helmet" and that takes about 3x3 space.
You ended up creating monochrome Mario.

CLUELESS Bas**rd (me): what about making Solar Power Generator a bit less savage. This is not a sprite question, it's probably some awful ROM rip.

every day i walk through the Banyan Tree. it's between the jamaican restaurant and the-- FINE OK.

I can make it drain less air when standing in the beam. In the 2010 version it drained 4 times as fast if you are in the beam compared to otherwise, dunno if that is how the original game worked (I think in the original the air drained twice as fast if you were hit in 2 different character cells?).

There was an RZX of all the 2010 levels being competed though (not by me of course lol) so all the levels were possible.

I don't think I've ever done Solar Power Generator myself lol

I'll add an options menu where you can change difficulty settings (so number of lives can be more than the default 3), how often you get an extra man, etc. Also air tick speed etc.

I should have enough memory to record the keypresses each frame for a level (requires 3 bits per frame, one each for pressed right/left/jump). So I can use that to do a playback of each level once you complete it (I can change the exit to a flashing R like the footy replays of the 70s and 80s), since all levels are 100% deterministic (there are NO random numbers used in Manic Miner at all).

I should also be able to have the option to save the replay buffer and play it back, dunno how many different replays we would be able to store. I could do save replay to tape option although it's easier to use a snapshot to save games really.

If I do replays I can add a "ghost" mode (assuming there is enough frame time to draw Willy twice and process the inputs for both - we will see), for time trial training.

I will add a level timer and high scores will be tracked per game/per level and the best times should be able to have their own fastest time entry.

I probably won't have 10 entries in high score table for every level though (maybe just the best time/score per level, or top 3 maybe).

[Morkin]

As a certified member of the Manic Miner finishers club, I'd be happy to help with any casual testing

[ParadigmShifter]

Are you able to do Eugene's Lair collecting the key on the right hand side last? Specifically in this engine

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/3 ... iner_Turbo


(press D to skip to next level and S to restart level. Do not press A).

since that is the code I will be using for enemy movement I think (although there may be changes since Willy is going to update at 50fps). (Enemies will update every other frame though).

I think it may be possible but you have to collect the last key when Eugene is at the top of its path (or very very near the top). It's hard (may be impossible with that engine, who knows).

If that is possible to do I will add a bonus level warp if you do that. I keep missing it by it looks like 1 pixel

If that isn't possible I may change the code to turn Eugene angry so it has a delay for 1 frame.

Also looking for other hard to achieve stuff for secret level warps - see this thread

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11692

[equinox]

As a certified member of the Manic Miner finishers club, I'd be happy to help with any casual testing

Not a member of the club until you have finished the Sam Coupé version(s) PLURAL.